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How to decide what size tooling to buy?How to decide what size tooling to buy? I've been looking around at tool steel blanks to make various cutters and have noticed that they come in a wide range of sizes. How do you go about deciding what size to buy? Obviously the larger ones are more expensive but on the other hand have less give in them so I assume the accuracy of the cut would be better? Apart from those two reasons, what else should I be considering?
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Re: How to decide what size tooling to buy? Hi Neil
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Re: How to decide what size tooling to buy? Neil,
I didn't say it was a perfect plan.
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Re: How to decide what size tooling to buy?I have to agree with both John and Phil - but "give" (or lack of) in the tool to some degree depends upon the cut you are taking. On my ML7 I often use 1/4 square cutters for fine work but if roughing out, a 10mm or 12mm square with carbide tip. Also with things like a qc toolpost, there are various elements of "give" before you even get to the tool. I hesitate to admit it in public but if I occasionally have a "dig-in" when parting off, the lathe (ML7) stops, the qc toolholder flexes downwards and the parting blade (1/16 thick) remains intact! Theoretically none of that should happen but it does, and parting-off is probably the most testing cut anyone is likely to take. In those circumstances there is a lot to be said for rigidity not just in the tool but also in the toolholder. Like Phil says, it all comes down to compromise! "He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors"
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Re: How to decide what size tooling to buy? I always look at what they do in industry and follow that. My Hardinge capstan and chucker work on 3/8" square as do many bar autos. I standardized on this size years ago and now buy HSS in 4" lengths so a broken tool will regrind into another.
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Re: How to decide what size tooling to buy? I think the best tool for my Boxford is about 1/2". I bought a parting off tool that was a bit over that (about 15mmx5mm) at the car boot sale on the weekend and when I put it in the lathe earlier I had to grind the top down so the cutting edge was centred on the bar I wanted to cut off. Now I've got a proper parting off tool though it flies through really easily. I think it may also help that I'm getting the hang of grinding the cutters.
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Re: How to decide what size tooling to buy? If you are using tipped tools then as you say 1/2" is about right, but a bit bigger is OK too and I don't disagree that as big as you can fit is desirable, but there's no need to get carried away. For HSS, I regularly use 1/4" square with no problems at all.
- Richard -
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Re: How to decide what size tooling to buy? I was thinking about buying a couple of those 6mm tool holders, are they any good? The idea of using another tool as packing is a good one, if I ever buy any I'll try it.
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Re: How to decide what size tooling to buy? No one has mentioned the possible use of tool holders as made by Eclipse and J&S. These enable the use of small pieces of cutting steel, typically 1/4" or less, but with minimal projection of the cutter whilst providing decent access from the toolpost itself. Particularly useful for odd shapes where you don't want to go grinding bigger cutters, they also have the tool on an angle so that a small adjustment in cutter height can be made without odd thin shims. There are also various cranked variants of these for improved access. The downside can be that the shank may be too big for your toolpost, so you'd need to check this. There is an example of the Eclipse on ebay at present; search for 'eclipse tool holder'; I have one identical to this which I seem to recall using on a Boxford I had some years ago.
When you stop learning you start dying
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Re: How to decide what size tooling to buy?
That was my thought. I'm looking for a couple of these holders at the moment, hopefully even a 90 degree to do internal threads in pipes. The grinding of a half inch cutter is a pain compared to say a 6mm. Even the difference between 3/8 and 1/2 on my little grinder is quite obvious.
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Re: How to decide what size tooling to buy? Use this type of holder all the time on the Boxford at School they work really well, but one not being used always gets in the way if you mount two in the 4 way tool post.
My world still turns on a Colchester lathe
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Re: How to decide what size tooling to buy? The picture shown by Philip is correct as far as J&S variety is concerned. The Eclipse variety is similar in principle, but the bit is better held under a tapered clamp which can hold 3/16" and round bits, as well as the normal 1/4", much better than the J&S, at least in my opinion.
When you stop learning you start dying
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Re: How to decide what size tooling to buy? Although I share Nicks approval of toolbits and toolbit holders, using them in an interchangeable (QC) toolpost system doesn't really make sense, especially on a small machine, as overhangs, projections and general bulk do stack up burning up space which no small machine has to spare. I've mentioned before that, in my view, the best way to exploit these devices is by basing a proper system around the idea of changing bits in "fixed" holders using a tool height gauge to simultaneously set bit projection and height. Working in this manner relatively slim two slot tool carrier blocks can be used minimising interference from the resting tool when the other is in use. I found it helpful to adopt 25° (ish) off straight in as the standard position for the topslide which also gets the handles nicely out of each others way. Two blocks would do nicely for a starter set. One carrying bent to the right and bent to the left holders for normal turning and facing duties respectively the other nominally for parting tool and boring bar although its doubtful it there is any advantage to leaving the boring bar mounted at all times. With a slot waiting and tool height gauge for set up mounting a boring bar is fast. The T-slotted top slide on the Boxford makes it trivial to change toolblocks if they are made as complete assemblies with Tee nut, stud and locking handle. Built up construction works just fine for the block and Tee-nut. A person more refined than I would arrange some form of indexing so the turning tool carrying block could be swivelled 180° to change from turning to facing duties and the parting tool block accurately mounted exactly perpendicular to the lathe axis. I happily used a variant of this proposal for many years in my SouthBend driving days using pairs of welded shank tools in rapid interchange 4-way post, Tee nut & stud assemblies. 20-20 hindsight says toolbits and holders would have worked a little better.
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