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Home Workshop > Members > Forum > General Area > General > Welcome Mat > Introduction (Oh and help!!)

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Introduction (Oh and help!!)

Introduction (Oh and help!!)

Hi folks,
I'm Duncan and I've been introduced to this fine forum by Alan Frost who just happens to live next door to my parents! I've got an electrical engineering background and a keen interest in anything mechanical, an eccentric collection of vehicles and a small LED lighting business!

I'm no stranger to the workshop however I've not done much machining at all. Our business has been developing cutting edge LED lighting fixtures for the last 4 years and we are looking to purchase some equipment to allow us to make prototypes of aluminium parts for our continued development. Very much low-budget stuff but interesting none the less!

The parts we are looking to make are mainly heatsinks, maximum 6" in diameter and machined from solid aluminium round stock. One side of the heatsink has a 'well' bored out of it and a bunch of mounting holes, and the back of the heatsink has a number of 'fins' machined into it. Have a look at the image below for an idea of what we make

http://www.homeworkshop.org.uk/components/com_agora/img/members/525/mini_LED-Fitting.jpeg

I reckon from my limited knowledge that I could make the heatsink part on a Mill with a rotary table? What do you guys think? How would you go about making the finned heatsink part in the picture?

All advice very much welcomed and appreciated!

All the best,
Duncan

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Re: Introduction (Oh and help!!)

hello Duncan and welcome to the fray! I am not a production engineer - not even a professional engineer - so I can only comment from my own experience in making things, mainly models. However, what you describe reminds me of a large diameter ring gear I once made, but obviously yours has deeper "teeth"! I would have thought a rotary table might do the job, either set vertically or horizontally, or you might consider a gear cutting type of set up with a dividing head and using a slitting saw in place of the profiled gear cutter. Just a few thoughts and no doubt others will have other ideas. You might also consider, if its only a short heat sink, cutting a long bar with fins and then parting off the length you need - save a lot of time I think! Depends whther the housing and finnned unit are one piece or not I suppose, but if not, that might be worth thinking about.

"He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors"
Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Introduction (Oh and help!!)

Hi Peter,
Thanks for the welcome and prompt response! I guess in some respects it is just part of a massive gear, I think the 'slots' are 5mm wide and 40mm deep and I know the company that does the larger batches for us breaks a lot of cutters!

We did look at making the fins as separate parts that could be slotted into a housing, from a thermal point of view it would certainly be better as a 'one-piece' assembly. I like the idea of the slitting saw, I never knew such a thing existed! That would be perfect for these deep slots. Do you know if you can get slitting saws in say a 5mm width?

Cheers,
Duncan

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Re: Introduction (Oh and help!!)

I would also go for a slitting saw and either a rotary table or dividing head, it rather depends on the milling facility you have, saws are available in a variery of sizes and thicknesses, perhaps a quick look at the J and L site would help you to pick one. I am surprised that your existing supplier had trouble in milling these in ali, I do similar parts in steel without trouble so ali should be OK.Iwould lubricte the saw with WD40.

Peter

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Re: Introduction (Oh and help!!)

hello Duncan,

I am sure that width of slitting saw is available, and I would suggest trying www.rdgtools.co.uk and have a squint at their listings. they are always friendly and helpful (they are, after all, in Yorkshire!) so if you don't see what you want, just ask. I don't think I have one but will have a rummage.

"He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors"
Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Introduction (Oh and help!!)

,

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Re: Introduction (Oh and help!!)

I'm not sure whether they did have any problems machining the slots, or if it was an excuse to charge us more?! I'd always imagined that ali would be lovely to machine?

I'm on the look out for a machine at the moment, space isn't really an issue for me and I need to get a 3ph inverter anyway for some other tools. I've always liked the Bridgeport machines and they look flexible too? There is a very clean one on ebay just now with DRO and power feed but I'm not sure if its the right money or not... or indeed the right machine for me!

Excuse my ignorance but is a dividing head always mounted vertically? I'm assuming it is mainly for cutting gears and indexable? I was wondering how you would keep track of a rotary table, or is this the reason the dividing head exists?

Oh and what is the J & L website?

Sorry for all the dumb questions....

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Re: Introduction (Oh and help!!)

Duncan - I would suggest you use a slitting saw on a horizontal type of mill - if you try it on an arbour in a vertical mill and the head isn't spot-on vertical to the bed you might have problems! I used to have a Bridgeport and they are good versatile machines but it was just too big for my needs. So, I would suggest you look for a mill that will give you vertical and traditional horizontal milling capability - but again, I can only speak from my own experience and others may have different views. And if you have a mill with lever operated downfeed on the quill you also have a great drilling machine! I have a slitting saw 4.75 dia by 3/16 thick which you are welcome to borrow for cost of postage but it may be cheaper in the long run to buy one when you get your mill! The other Peter mentioned using WD 40 as a cutting lubricant for aluminium - it is good, but I use white spirit 'cos its cheaper! But thats a Yorkshireman for you!

"He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors"
Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Introduction (Oh and help!!)

Peter Smithurst wrote:

hello Duncan,

I am sure that width of slitting saw is available, and I would suggest trying www.rdgtools.co.uk and have a squint at their listings. they are always friendly and helpful (they are, after all, in Yorkshire!) so if you don't see what you want, just ask. I don't think I have one but will have a rummage.

Thanks Peter, that's a good website they have there. I reckon I'd need a 4" saw to get the depth of slot we require. I believe 'by law' anyone from Yorkshire has to be friendly and helpful  wink

Also saw on their website you can get a rotary table with a 3-jaw chuck already mounted. That I imagine is exactly what I'll need...

Cheers

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Re: Introduction (Oh and help!!)

"Excuse my ignorance but is a dividing head always mounted vertically? I'm assuming it is mainly for cutting gears and indexable? I was wondering how you would keep track of a rotary table, or is this the reason the dividing head exists? "

in answer to that one, they are normally like a lathe headstock and tailstock mounted on the mill table and the better ones are indexable using division plates (again look at RDG to get an idea)

"He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors"
Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Introduction (Oh and help!!)

Peter Smithurst wrote:

in answer to that one, they are normally like a lathe headstock and tailstock mounted on the mill table and the better ones are indexable using division plates (again look at RDG to get an idea)

Right, I've figured out the dividing head now!

Are there many machines that can do vertical and horizontal milling? The one's I'm finding tend to be either/or... I see what you mean about the accuracy of the cut being very dependent on the head position although what we are doing is probably not that critical for prototypes.

Thanks for the offer of the slitting saw, I'll probably just buy one then I don't need to worry about messing it up!

Thanks,
Duncan

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Re: Introduction (Oh and help!!)

having the saw out of alignment can either break the blade of a thinnish one or lead to a messy end with a thicker one! It is fairly simple to make a device that fits in the vertical head and carries a dial indicator on a radial arm which is a great aid for ensuring proper vertical alignment - not rocket science but a crucial state of affairs. There are many "horizontal" milling machines which have removeable vertical heads. One of the smaller which would handle your need is the Adcock and Shipley 1ES for instance but there are many others. A look on somewhere like http://premiermachinetools.netfirms.com/stocklist.htm will give you some ideas. I have never bought from them but they look good and have a changing range. And they are approachable too, even though they are not in Yorkshire (but not too far away!) Also, have a look on www.lathes.co.uk - an amazing website with details of loads of machines and a "for sale" category too. It will give you an idea of what exists, what is available and an idea of prices.

"He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors"
Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Introduction (Oh and help!!)

Certainly don't want to end up with a messy end! I'm now spotting these horizontal machines with vertical heads, makes sense now although I guess in an ideal world you would have both to save the hassle of changing things around.

I've had a look at lathes.co.uk (Amazing site!) and also premiermachinetools amongst other suppliers. In some ways it would suit me better to buy from a dealer and reclaim the VAT, although I do have a van/trailer to go and get something myself..

Cheers,
Duncan

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Re: Introduction (Oh and help!!)

certainly 2 milling machines would be good - but then you have the job of re-setting up the job when you transfer from one machine to the other. The Americans in the early 19th century got the right idea when they invented interchangeable manufacturing - one machine for one job! But unless you are producing thousands then perhaps overkill and very expensive if you need to carry out several machining operations! Have fun - I'm sure you will.

"He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors"
Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Introduction (Oh and help!!)

Seems to me these could be cast. There is a company Local to me who is probably the best aluminium  casting company in the UK making the parts other can't, If you want their name & contact details send me a personal message or your e mail and I'll send them on. We took a group of students on a vist last year,  I enjoyed it far more that the students, it was a complete contrast to the hi tech electronics factory we also visited. The patten making shop had the best selection of Wadkin woodworking machines from the 50's I've ever seen as well as a CNC jobby or was it a rapid proto-type machine anyway, they can cast then CNC machine for you if you need complete service.
Ashley

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Re: Introduction (Oh and help!!)

Hmm,
how about horizontal gangmilling with a number of cutters finishing the cooling fins in one pass?

Cheers
Erik

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Re: Introduction (Oh and help!!)

At 6" (152mm)Dia. it's quite a lump of alloy, Dependant on quantities you could possibly be looking at an extrusion, cut from bar and turn O/D. There used to be a "Trial" batch service by some extrusion manufacturers, might be worth checking.

  Regards  Ian.

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Re: Introduction (Oh and help!!)

Having only just seen this posting, and reading the the bottom, I would tend to agree with Erik.

On a vertical miller, set the block to machine vertically on its edge (angle plate, rotary table/dividing head), then having already decided on your fin pitch and width, by adding 'x' amount of slitting saws spaced apart on a single spindle, using a good copious supply of coolant, proceed carefully.

On a horizontal miller, same principle just horizontally.

I keep trying until tiring.

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Re: Introduction (Oh and help!!)

Erik Hansen wrote:

Hmm,
how about horizontal gangmilling with a number of cutters finishing the cooling fins in one pass?

Cheers
Erik

Beat me to it smile Yep, this is the obvious way to do it other than to throw it in a cnc machining centre.

Bill

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Re: Introduction (Oh and help!!)

Hi Duncan-I was away yesterday (picking up the swager)-not a great bargain-but see you've already been getting the usual friendly help this site provides. It struck me after you came round that a bridgeport was probably best for you altho it might have a bigger capacity than you need and a smaller turret miller might be adequate.Chester and Warco amongst others have FE imports of turret millers. I don't have experience of turret millers preferring the" old fashioned" Horizontal and Vertical millers but I think you can set the head of Bridgeorts  over 90 degrees to give effectively a horizontal mill , altho not as rugged as a dedicated Horizontal mill. Gang milling on a horizontal would certainly give the quickest result , milling the whole lot in one pass , although milling doesn't give a top class finish. (this if anything would probably improve the heat transfer characteristics but not the aesthetics)
Incidentally Bridgeport made so many mills that u could almost certainly pick up a s/h Bridgeport probably with DRO or CNC fitted for a lot less than a new FE import-you've just got to inspect whats on offer to make sure you don't get a clapped out one.
You did the right thing pointing out the other swager-it looks about as old as the one I got but not a bad one and in cheaper petrol range.
By the way I've got a lot of horizontal milling cutters (1 Inch bore )not all of which I need and the same with slitting saws when you are next visiting the area. Rgds. Alan

P.S. I think Peter's right about Yorkshire-- the law is an extension of the section specifying the design of a Yorkshireman just under where it specifies short arms and deep pockets .It was part of the more general act of Parliament that famously specified everyone in Liverpool had to have someone in the family who owned a van.

Alan. Everyday is a schoolday.

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