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Home Workshop > Projects Area > Lathes > colchester bantam single phase convertion

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colchester bantam single phase convertion

colchester bantam single phase convertion

hi
just got  a mk1 bantam that a 3 phase only motor  i have a single phase 1.5 hp motor to replace it  any one any ideas how to wire through the switch gear so it will work as  forward and reverse  ? had hoped it would have  a 240 / 415 motor and use an invertor  but it didnt !
cheers andy

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Re: colchester bantam single phase convertion

Andy. A few comments, are you sure you cannot wire motor for 240V 3 phase as I understood most motors fitted to Bantams were changeable , if it is dual voltage the  motor will probably have 6 terminals in it's  connector box. 
Making the switchgear work with 240 V is almost impossible as the coil on the starter will be 415 V.   It is a lot easier to reverse a three phase motor than a single phase one, with 3 phase you only have to swop any two wires that is what the forward and reverse switch does that is mounted under the drip tray  assuming you have the same start stop lever as I do mounted to the right of the saddle. The start stop switch also provides a momentary pulse to the starter coil which will then self hold until circuit is broken again. The switch under the drip tray is a wee bit complicated, I took mine apart to rewire it , I got it to work but there is no way it can be configured to reverse a single phase motor.
Your best bet and a simple way to retain the apron control lever if you insist on a single phase motor is to get a Dewhurst switch on eBay ( see http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MYFORD-DEWHUR … 43b6b0e458)  and use that to reverse the single phase motor.  I would check that it is a single phase switch and that there is a wiring diagram with it.   Find a contactor  with a 240 V coil (or obtain a 240V coil for the one fitted) and wire that to the under tray switch to turn on the power as you are not supposed to use a Dewhurst as a stop start switch but many people do, it will eventually burn out the contacts if you do. This route will mean the control lever will stop and start the machine and the Dewhust  will decide the direction of rotation.  All of this does assume you are familiar with electrics.
Failing all that and in my opinion the best bet is to get a 240V 3 phase motor and an inverter it will be much better and you can vary the speed as well, works fantastically well on my Bantam.  Finally you can convert a 3 terminal motor that is 415 V only to 240V 3 Phase by dismantling and finding the star point, I have done it  with two motors on my mill and once you get in there it is fairly easy and has been discussed on here a few times.
I am in North Essex if you want to see my conversion.
Do keep asking questions there are a number of more knowledgeable people who use this site who can help as well.
Ashley.

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Re: colchester bantam single phase convertion

Andy, that Dewhurst switch that Ashley has pointed out looks a good one, but you can't see the internals.
If you decide to use a Dewhurst send me a PM with your email and I'll make sure you get a good one at a fair price.   I have one or two refurbished with new contacts and pins.   Some of those on ebay are rubbish and a danger to the user.

However I also think you should pursue the 3-phase options, make certain your motor is not dual-voltage, and if not then have a go at finding the star point and rewiring it. You have nothing to lose.   I remember when Ashley and others did their first one, and now they are old hands at it.
If you look through the forum, as Ashley says, you will find lots of advice on it.  The trouble is the thread title doesn't always reflect this.

Phil

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Re: colchester bantam single phase convertion

hi
thanks for the advice chaps , i will look and see if the 3 phase motor has 6 poles first !

cheers andy

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Re: colchester bantam single phase convertion

Andy. Just one word of caution I think Dewhurst switches have a power limit, think you will be OK using only to select  Forward and Reverse and main contactor to apply power.  Phil is correct insides can be very worn due to arcing when used as a power switch. Keep us informed
Ashley

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Re: colchester bantam single phase convertion

Ashley is quite correct, and I had forgotten (so used to dealing with Myford/Boxford size lathes (and being 70 yrs old!!)) that Dewhurst switches are intended for fractional horsepower (FHP) motors only.
Their capacity is limited to 3/4 HP for single phase and 1 hp for 3-phase.

I hang my head in shame.

Phil

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Re: colchester bantam single phase convertion

Andy. If you want a manual for your Bantam let me have your e mail address as a PM and I'll send you a copy as 4  pdf files. Offer open to anybody who needs one.
Ashley

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Re: colchester bantam single phase convertion

hya all
i have now got an vfd inverter and a 240 /415 3 phase motor to wire in delta
next question i have is how to wire  the switchgear  from the forward reverse lever  i presume it will have a 415 coil in there as this was a 2 speed 415 machine  what will i need to change ? any wiring diagrams ?
cheers andy

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Re: colchester bantam single phase convertion

Andy well done. Manual on it's way later. I forgot about two speed machines, there was no way a two speed motor can be converted to 240 V as far as I am aware. So as to rewiring.
1) You MUST NOT put any switch gear between inverter and motor you need 4 core cable (3 phase + Earth) directly from inverter to motor.
2) Inverter thus lathe will need to be controlled using the low voltage side of the inverter which should be detailed in the manual typically there are two ways
    a) Two ordinary switches one for reverse and one for forward or a simple changeover switch with center off, you can use very cheap low power switches if you want to try this and maybe change later.
    b) Use 3 wire control sometimes called self holding start which will need a momentary action push button switch for forward and same for reverse and a push to break switch as the stop switch. This gives the advantage of a NVR type switch ie the  lathe will not  restart after a power failure unless you press forward.

Now issue comes with a Bantam is the under apron switch, if you want to retain this it should be possible to use it as either of the above as it was originally wired to control the NVR switch. Thus it should be possible to configure as b) above as it is already configured to give a momentary pulse to start machine when moved up or down (Fwd / Rev)  and break the circuit when moved to the central stop position. Problem is the two start positions as lathe was originally wired will be the same as reversing was controlled by the other parts of the switch. You will need to get the switch off and see if it can be configured as needed.
If you want to use switch as two switches as in  a) above this can be done it is what I did but again you need to dismantle the switch and play with it's contact position until you get what you want, needs a logical mind , clear head and an avo meter or similar.
It's all really simple provided you have manual for inverter and don't want the apron switch!
Ashley

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Re: colchester bantam single phase convertion

Hi
I'm new here but recently bought a Bantam 2000 and wanted to run it as original but from single phase.
After looking about I settled on a rotary phase converter and I must say its amongst the best things I have ever bought.
There is a slight hum when its running but the machine drowns most of that out and I'm planning on running it from a remote location with sound proofing as a next move.
I was invited over to the manufacturers who demonstrated all their products under load discussed my needs and was given a discount!!!
The Lathe operates at full speed 2000 rpm and will take an 8mm cut in stainless without batting an eyelid.
All in fantastic.
cheers
Al..

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Alan Woodcock
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Re: colchester bantam single phase convertion

hya all
all up and working  !  eventally got the  rotary swich configuered to work with the lathes original forwaed reverse switch  many thanks to ashley for his help and manual

cheers andy

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Re: colchester bantam single phase convertion

Hi I’m about to do the same I just acquired a Bantam. Which motor did yours have?

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Re: colchester bantam single phase convertion

Hi Bill,

I put a 2.2kw (3hp) 3 phase motor on mine and fitted a VFD. I set the frequency from about 25hz minimum to 100hz maximum giving it a max speed of 1600rpm.

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Re: colchester bantam single phase convertion

Hi Pete. That’s a big motor my Bantam is happy with the original 1.0 hp motor and a 1.5 kw Mitsubishi inverter set at 25-100 Hz. But it is not always happy at the top speed in top gear. This maybe due to carrier frequency can’t remember the setting but it has to be quite high to avoid a loud hum at low frequency which upsets my ears. Been converted a few years now and used almost daily at times very reliable.

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Re: colchester bantam single phase convertion

You're right Ashley now I think of it that was a 1.5kw motor I fitted. The machine was originally a 800rpm model but the vfd allowed it to get to 1600. I set the speed control knob so that at 12 0'clock the spindle speed was exactly as per the speed chart in any gear. Turning it left or right adjusted the speed above and below 'stock' 50hz.

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